daredevil muffin-y genius ([info]monanotlisa) wrote,
@ 2007-09-11 15:29:00
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Entry tags:artwork, fandom, feedback, meta, writing

Stop Dissecting My Baby!
I was cleaning the dishes, as one does. And I idly wondered about fannish feedback culture. As one does.

We like responses to our fanworks. That's a no-brainer. But every time there's another debate or wank about the merits of a piece or the people involved or, fine, another instance of me giving in to the urge of posting unsolicited concrit, I'm baffled anew at people's responses.

Mona, you sigh say, haven't you learned by now that most fans don't want criticism? That a large faction of fandom hates anything but happysqueeyourock! comments?

But, but, but, I respond, WHY?

The question isn't whether we like criticism -- we generally don't. I sure don't. You probably don't. Your five-year-old neighbour with the crayon set won't cherish having all the flaws in his doodles pointed out to him. And yet, to me, that doesn't account for these emotional and occasionally anguished responses.

We could segue into the whole Art Discussion at this point -- How One Can Only Become Better through Techniques & Application, how Other People's Insights Allow You To Improve, and so on and so forth. But that's not what I'm interested in here -- I'm interested people's attitudes and motivations, in the underlying reasons. This goes for actions and reactions alike. As I said, faced with criticism, all of us are taken aback at least a little. But the fannish culture in question actively keeps people from saying what they feel quite strongly yet don't post about unless behind a friendslock or in a BNF's livejournal. I don't mean personal likes and dislikes, mind you; I don't care for people sharing them in public. This is purely about criticism of fannish work.

As usual, I'm wary of the off-hand referral to any radical difference between fandom and real life, the latter in this case harbouring literary & art critics, book & magazine reviews, and last but not least financial & market pressures. I don't deny Our Way Is Different upon occasion and especially in certain areas -- queerness, kink etc. -- but anyone who denies that fandom is a microcosm reflecting the macrocosm of the world Out There is -- well. Not very versed in one of the two.

So, attitudes? I, being one of those obnoxious Europeans raised to analyse/compare social/historical systems, instantly forego all proper empirical research and merely look at my friendslist and my fandom experiences. (I am barely resisting a smiley here. But I will be victorious.) Where it seems to me that a lot of the Europeans here may get just as grumpy or huffy when a flaw in their work is pointed out to them...but they don't negate the essential validity of criticism per se.

They may negate its value, or they may doubt its accuracy, but I right now, cannot come up with a single instance of, How Dare You Even Criticise What I Made?

(This does not, I'm fairly certain, apply to most people reading this, US-American or otherwise. I'm generalising. Like whoa.)

And I wondered about US American emphasis placed on success, achievement, and accomplishment. I don't necessarily mean perfection; insert random wry comment about being German. I'm talking about not having done something but having something as a result of that. It obviously doesn't have to be simple or tangible; America in fact tends to place a higher premium on abstract values like honour and patriotism.

But always, it's not what you do, it's what you have. This your property, this your inherent or acquired quality or badge defines you. You are -- well, maybe not nothing without it, but you are considerably less. This is actually exacerbated by on-line communication as opposed real-life interaction: There simply isn't anything you can see beyond what fans put on a web-page. Our personalities and the things we do matter, sure, but mostly insofar as they influence our creative and -- most literally -- journalistic output.

In this context, fans' reaction to a criticism of their work is far more understandable, at least to me: I'm not idly saying something about this there little thing you made; I'm by default making a statement about you, your parentage, and your dog, too. Okay, getting carried away there, but you get the gist: It's about accomplishments and works being far more central to one's very identity, and look, I'm back to your formal, stilted style.

This can only mean I'm -- finally -- coming to an end. Of course, I cannot refrain from adding that I wish more fans would if perhaps not immediately adapt this absolutely ground-breaking insight then at least try to understand why it is so hard for some of us -- say, me -- not to find fannish attitudes regarding purely work-based criticism strange, and who would dearly welcome a fannish criticism culture that's open, honest, and of course stripped of ad-hominem elements.

Yes, I'm a dreamer.

And yes, you're welcome to start methodically taking apart my fanfic and my icons. You always were.*



* I can say that because really, who would even care? Oh, the joys -- and securities -- of not being fandom-famous. And now I really cannot resist it: & ;-)



(Post a new comment)


[info]honeymink
2007-09-11 01:41 pm UTC (link)
I'm by default making a statement about you, your parentage, and your dog, too.

You do? But you know nothing about the dog!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]monanotlisa
2007-09-11 01:41 pm UTC (link)
I KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT POOR FIFI!

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(no subject) - [info]honeymink, 2007-09-11 01:47 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 01:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 01:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]honeymink, 2007-09-11 01:57 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 02:05 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]honeymink, 2007-09-11 02:14 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 02:15 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]wesleysgirl
2007-09-11 01:52 pm UTC (link)
I think for me a lot of it is where it's coming from. If it's from someone I like, someone I've interacted with positively, who says nice things about me, who compliments things I do right, it's easier to accept that something about whatever it is I've created is off somehow. If it's from someone I don't know that well, it's harder to accept graciously/without it feeling like they're criticising ME PERSONALLY (even when I've asked them to beta.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]monanotlisa
2007-09-11 02:03 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I see what you mean; it's playing into what I said above.

Maybe it's a question of what we do with what we feel? I doubt I have a less emotional immediate reaction to criticism (~ "OH MY GOD, ALL MY STUFF IS CRAP, I SHOULD REFRAIN FROM EVER TOUCHING THE KEYBOARD/MY MOUSE AGAIN!"), but assuming it really is work-based, it usually isn't that hard for me to then take a deep breath and say, okay, fair enough, I should reconsider elements A, B, and C. I don't think I ever felt that it was in any way about me, you see? Well, admittedly, my writing and icon-making skills, but they, they are not who I am.

As for who is the speaker -- hmm.

A stranger would, if he were matter-of-fact, give me quite the jolt, but then again, immediately disliking his criticism doesn't mean it doesn't have merit. I'd think about it (and even incorporate it, as I have done in the past re: icons and oh boy, ADJECTIVES).

Someone that I don't like or that I've had previous arguments with -- yeah, that's the practical and problematic side. It's much harder to look at the criticism itself and completely separate it from the context.

I generally prefer criticism from friends, too, but I am not actually sure everybody does. It tends to hit muuuch closer to home.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]thegrrrl2002
2007-09-11 02:08 pm UTC (link)
haven't you learned by now that most fans don't want criticism?

Is this true, though? Or maybe a lot of writers wouldn't want a sharp criticism posted publicly, but would welcome a email critiquing their fic? If true, maybe the dichotomy is then public discussion vs private discussion.

I'm only talking about my flist, of course, but I get the sense that most of them, if not all, would welcome a private critique. I could be wrong, here, obviously. And my flist is by no means a representative portion of fandom. *g*

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)


[info]monanotlisa
2007-09-11 02:14 pm UTC (link)
I thought about including the public/private issue, but frankly, I didn't have the time. Trains, classes etc. pp. Darn real life and the prevention of Yet More Grandiose Thoughts! *g*

Seriously, that's a good point -- you are right; I am confident that I could write a substantial portion of my friendslist a private mail. It is what I would prefer as well.

But as you say, I don't think our flists are all that representative, and I think our corner of fandom may also not necessarily be. A higher percentage of academics will also mean a certain ingrained kink: If you correct me, and do so with thought and at length, oh my God, YOU CARE!11!!! (I know that most of my profs throughout uni did not. Woe.)

For the record, especially in my early days of fandom, I sent quite a few friendly, bouncy concrit mails. I never got a single answer even from people I had previous friendly interactions with. (As I said -- this annot claim be universal; other people may have had other experiences.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]thegrrrl2002, 2007-09-11 02:22 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ainsley, 2007-09-11 06:05 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 10:08 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 10:08 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]thegrrrl2002, 2007-09-11 10:12 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 11:35 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]wesleysgirl, 2007-09-11 02:37 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]thegrrrl2002, 2007-09-11 04:45 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]synecdochic, 2007-09-11 05:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 10:22 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]filenotch, 2007-09-15 07:18 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 10:11 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]velocitygrass, 2007-09-11 05:04 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 10:28 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]velocitygrass, 2007-09-12 04:42 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 10:10 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]ainsley
2007-09-11 02:14 pm UTC (link)
The particular aspect of fandom you analyze here is just about my least favorite thing about it. I've just started writing fic seriously, and how the fuck am I supposed to improve if no one offers constructive advice?

And sometimes it makes me sad to see what could be a brilliant story be only good because of a few small things a better beta could have spotted. My favorite Veronica Mars story is forever ruined by things like Echoll's.

I wish there were a way to create a corner of fandom where we could explicitly say "I welcome concrit" and have people know we mean it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]zillah975, 2007-09-11 07:32 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ainsley, 2007-09-11 07:57 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 10:32 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ainsley, 2007-09-13 04:30 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 10:30 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]sheafrotherdon
2007-09-11 02:15 pm UTC (link)
Concrit is a beautiful thing. I've had things pointed out to me in comments that were really thoughtful and helpful; I've had people spot spelling mistakes; I've entered into conversation about character motivation with complete strangers. I love that give and take - but I also have a very very healthy dose of self-confidence, and I've been doing this for years. Not everyone has that in their corner, and even if they do, not everyone considers posting something to the 'net to be an invitation for anyone to offer up their considered opinion of their work. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Too often "concrit" is missing the "con." Any criticism offered with derogatory language or insults is clearly over the line, but even more often I seen "concrit" offered to shore up the commenters sense of self rather than to be of genuine help to the poster. Neither gets anyone anywhere, even if the criticism is, at heart, truthful. There's no trust relationship there, and so it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff and take away with the helpful information (if, indeed, it's helpful) without slogging through all the other baggage.

One of the problems with unsolicited criticism is that the person critiquing the work can't possibly know how far the work's come from inception to posting. Someone can have taken a rough idea, sweated over it, sent it through two, three edits, walked away from it, come back to it, worked on it more, and then they post it . . . and someone says, this is great, but it'd be even better if you did X or Y. That can be crushing to some folks. I'd also feel better about encouraging a general attitude of concrit in fandom if people understood it can be as helpful to point out to someone 'you did X *so* well' rather than simply limiting comments to 'your portrayal of Y was kind of off the mark in my opinion.'

I guess I come down on the side of encouraging people to express their creativity however they want, and fostering a general fandom respect for the beta process, whether it's art or fic. I think criticism should be something an author or artist *asks* for, when they're ready, when they want it, when they're open to taking it on and really working with it. There's no doubt it will make their creative work better - but I think there has to be a voluntary, active, chosen commitment on the creators part, or the concrit will achieve very little.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 02:19 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ainsley, 2007-09-11 07:00 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sheafrotherdon, 2007-09-11 11:40 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 11:41 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ainsley, 2007-09-13 06:32 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mirabile_dictu, 2007-09-12 12:53 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ainsley, 2007-09-13 04:15 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mirabile_dictu, 2007-09-13 06:04 am UTC (Expand)
part 1 - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 11:30 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: part 1 - [info]sheafrotherdon, 2007-09-11 11:50 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: part 1 - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 12:05 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 11:33 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sheafrotherdon, 2007-09-11 11:58 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 12:31 am UTC (Expand)
and you're not the only one
[info]jssangel
2007-09-11 02:25 pm UTC (link)
I can't say I've analyzed the reasons(cultural or personal) why feedback that is not unequivical praise is unacceptable. I just noticed the social trend and adhered to it.

I recently read a very long very good fic, which the author clearly brought imagination and skill and self-discipline to - and which on the whole I enjoyed a great deal. However, the end of the story really took me by surprise and in some ways disappointed me - partly because I have different ideas about the characters as cannon presents them to us, but more because I didn't see how (or why) she arrived at that as her inevitable conclusion...

I'd love to talk about it to someone - especially her - not because I want to tell her something was wrong, but because what I am interested in doing with my time is enganing in dialog about stories. It's why I am drawn to fanfic in the first place!

(I secretly believe that fanfic as an art form inherantly encapsulates criticism of the source material. We retell or embroider on the stories we are given to make them better -to make them end the way we want, or not end at all, etc...

And yet, even that same kind of "criticism" - fanfic of fanfic - often provokes the community to cry foul.)

But there isn't any way to go about it, without starting a thing. And so I don't say anything, and I am cranky.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: and you're not the only one - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 11:43 pm UTC (Expand)
going OT here...
[info]cathexys
2007-09-11 02:38 pm UTC (link)
Ok, are you saying (much more covertly and elegantly) that a culture which competes constantly and obsessively over everything and anything in the end has created a NEED for a competition (and criticism) free space???

B/c I'm still amazed at what you can all get awards and medals and stickers and competitions for...given that in 13 years school and 6 years uni in Germany I don't think I had anything to show for other than my actual grades and degrees (printed on computer thin paper with the little easy to pull off sides nontheless :)

Sorry...but I just had an impromptu meeting with my younger son's teacher where she felt the need to tell me that he wasn't working up to par...his HANDWRITING wasn't good enough (mind you, we're three weeks into first grade!) and he wasn't following assignments properly. I'm not sure whether she wanted me to start extra homework or Ritalin, but frankly, as long as he's still making 100% on all tests (and even if he weren't I don't give a flying fuck!!!)

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: going OT here... - [info]isiscolo, 2007-09-11 03:34 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: going OT here... - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-11 11:52 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]rahirah
2007-09-11 02:46 pm UTC (link)
Over the years I've thought about this a lot, and I finally came to the conclusion that there are two basic kinds of fan creators: the ones for whom creative endeavor is primarily an end in itself, and those for whom it is primarily a means to build and affirm social ties. Talent and skill can be found in both groups. But those in group two often consider criticism to be an attack, because their artistic output is their social currency. A writes a story, B squees, and their social relationship is established or affirmed. If A writes a story and B crits, then A sees it as B rejecting their relationship and diminishing A's social credit.

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(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 12:32 am UTC (Expand)

[info]_bettina_
2007-09-11 03:03 pm UTC (link)
I think the "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." attitude plays a lot into it. A lot of people seem to think that criticism is something bad and therefore shouldn't be mentioned at all.

And while it certainly doesn't feel great when someone criticizes your story/art, that you spent a lot of time working on, it's still not a bad thing. At least it's not to me.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]trobadora, 2007-09-11 03:16 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 12:33 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 12:33 am UTC (Expand)

[info]mirabile_dictu
2007-09-11 03:25 pm UTC (link)
As someone mentioned, there's a big difference between public and private critical responses. But I think there's also pleasure involved. Maybe because I taught comp and lit for so many years, but the very last thing I want to do is engage in concrit in fandom. If I'm not being paid for it, it's no fun. In fact, even when I was being paid for it, I didn't find it much fun. I think it's like anything else -- some people enjoy it, others don't, in the same way that I like herring in sour cream but my husband doesn't.

As far as receiving unasked-for criticism, the key for me is unasked for. When I was writing, I wanted as many betas looking at my story as I could beg to do so. Ideally, I'd have the entire fandom participating in the beta process. After I post, though, I'm finished with that story. I no longer have interest in discussing it and certainly no interest in changing it. I'm over it.

(The big exception is typos or factual errors. No matter how ancient the story, I always want to hear about typos/errors so I can correct them. One of the reasons I love keeping my stories on my own website is how easy it is to correct stuff.)

So I think there are a number of questions wrapped up in your statement This is purely about criticism of fannish work. In other words, I don't think there's a "purely" about it at all.

If that makes sense.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 12:35 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mirabile_dictu, 2007-09-13 10:40 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-13 10:50 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]mmmchelle
2007-09-11 04:13 pm UTC (link)
Interesting. My boss and I were having a discussion yesterday morning about cultural differences between the US and Europe and attitudes toward work and life.

In the US it is very much about acquisition. You are what you own. Consumption is identity in mainstream American culture.

Whereas, speaking as a non-European, more emphasis is placed on quality of life in Europe, or so it appears. You work fewer hours, take more vacations, consume less (although in some countries not a lot less). It's an entirely different aesthetic.

How that translates into fannish culture, and whether or not it has any bearing on fannish responses to criticism, I don't know.

To me the criticism question always seemed to be more about emotional maturity than anything else. Certainly the people I know who run moderated archives seem to run into whiny, criticism-resistant writers from other parts of the world as well as the US.

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(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 12:37 am UTC (Expand)

[info]femmenerd
2007-09-11 04:19 pm UTC (link)
Ugh. I wish I had more interesting things to say at this juncture. Usually, my thoughts on concrit boil down to the fact that a lot of the time people on both sides of a given interaction are not understanding/implementing the "con-structive" part of it.

But as for cultural distinctions...hmmmm. It would seem interesting, as someone else articulated, if US culture is so competition-based that it creates a need for a non-judgey/competitive space. Except...I really don't think fandom is that (even if some people want it to be). I mean, I love fandom, but there's plenty of hierarchy and competition about.

Oh god, sleepy. Gonna go make strawberry muffins and tea.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 10:16 am UTC (Expand)
*pokes nose in randomly*
[info]miera_c
2007-09-11 05:31 pm UTC (link)
Here via friends friends. I tend to agree with your thoughts on "you are what you show" online and why it can make people a bit fierce about even perceived slights. It's the thing I love about the Internet: very thorough (though not total) control of information.

Not that I'm trying to make this all about me, but [info]lostcityfound has a policy against public concrit in the comments primarily because it can cause drama. Useful criticism is important for people who want to make their work better, but as a couple people have said, the uninvited critique can be harsh and shocking and also end up being unhelpful (at least if you're dealing with someone as perverse as me). Also even the most tactful piece of concrit can be interpreted as an attack by a delicate temperament, and then there are calls to battle and swarms of friends are defending people who've long since flounced away and fandom_wank is rolling their eyes... you get the gist. So, we don't allow public concrit on LCF, not because well-intentioned concrit is bad, but because I'm more worried about keeping the peace in Dodge than anything else.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: *pokes nose in randomly* - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 10:21 am UTC (Expand)
Re: *pokes nose in randomly* - [info]miera_c, 2007-09-12 02:00 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: *pokes nose in randomly* - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 02:04 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]soundingsea
2007-09-11 05:32 pm UTC (link)
The concrit topic is interesting to me because I don't really seek it out from the general public, but I wouldn't mind it were it presented.

I definitely depend on the services of a beta (or three) to tell me where I'm being too vague, too handwavey, too whatever. But after I've posted something and I'm done with it, the only useful advice is that along the lines of "you're missing a word in this sentence" or "you didn't close the italics tag". If someone wants to say, "I don't think Angel would do that," my impulsive response would be, "Well, in this story, he *did*, and I'm not re-writing it at this point." So I'm not sure how useful disagreement with (say) my plot/characterization choices would be (for example).

That said, I'm definitely in the "write it and forget it" camp; I don't even remember to tag all my fic and put it all up on my website. I enjoy the process of creating much more than any explaining I'd have to do later; I imagine that the fic should speak for itself! :)

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 10:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]soundingsea, 2007-09-12 12:27 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 12:39 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]soundingsea, 2007-09-12 02:52 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 02:53 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mirabile_dictu, 2007-09-12 03:11 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 04:29 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]neevebrody
2007-09-11 05:41 pm UTC (link)
I agree with "ainsley" above. I am a relatively new fanfic writer - even though I've lurked around and read for ages. When I first started out, I didn't have a beta (bad idea). Finally, I plucked up the courage to go to someone whose writing I'd admired for a long time (contacted them privately) and asked them to look over some things for me. Their thoughts and criticisms made a world of difference to me, as well as accentuating the positive aspects. Writers need to know what they're doing right, too. As I've progressed, I've found the immeasurable benefits of having a good beta and I believe my writing has improved because of that. The key in that last sentence is "good beta." It's not easy to find someone you click with, but when you do -- you know you've found something special. Gah! I'm rambling.

While the good, nice feedback is great, I would have no problem with someone giving me legitimate con crit -- after all, I want to improve. But, responses that border on flaming or just come from left field should be dealt with away from what other users would have to be subjected to reading (here I agree with Grrrl). An off-site email discussion is the place for that and most times you can find out if the person has a legitimate reason for such harsh criticism or they're just having a bad day.

If you read one of my stories and you think I'm off base on something or I could have developed an aspect more, or less, please just let me know - I welcome it and I think writers who are honest with themselves can look at con crit most of the time and say, "yeah, they're right."

Sorry, this is so long. I'm at work and I wanted to cram all of this in at once. :)

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 10:33 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]neevebrody, 2007-09-12 03:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 04:43 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]kangeiko
2007-09-11 07:53 pm UTC (link)
You is clever. *nods*

Although, I gotta say, the one time that I received a critique (I am not kidding, some person deconstructed a fic of mine, complete with citations of theorists) it left me a little paranoid. "But I didn't mean any of that, you're just reading into it!" Etc.

Which has nothing to do with criticism, obviously. Except that it does - the critique was very positive, but it was the seriousness of it that embarrassed me. I was writing for my own amusement, not for a literary prize. To produce criticism that doesn't seem slapdash and shoddy without turning it into something overly-serious is rather hard; I was trying to provide constructive feedback for [info]wingsmith and was having trouble pinpointing the areas that needed improvement without getting theoretical on his ass. Luckily, he knows enough to take my high falutin' with a pinch of salt, but you see my point - if someone wrote you an essay on a fic you'd be discomforted. It's difficult to be honest, constructive and insightful without citing Derrida.

Or so I've found, anyway. :)

(In other words, if the writer doesn't take their writing seriously as 'literature', it's embarrassing to find other people treating it as such.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]monanotlisa, 2007-09-12 10:42 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kangeiko, 2007-09-13 09:37 am UTC (Expand)

[info]feanna
2007-09-11 09:59 pm UTC (link)
About the comments I leave: If something really struck me and if I'm really thinkig about it by the end of the story I'll leave long comments about it, but if not a lot of the time I'm just to lazy to think of something profound to say and it's a choice between nothing and "Nice!".

(I think that maybe seeing 20 comments of this type may lead to me doing something similar.)

Also if I really don't like something I won't read it.
I think a little of it comes down to fandom activities being for enjoyment, also I'm lazy.

That said, when I first came into fandom I was a little surprised at all the comments that had nothing to say really.

I always feel more satisfied though when the discussion goes beyond "how nice".

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